Buddha Torrents has recently come under pressure from Blogger as well as Publishers to close its doors and cease postings and delete the blog. I have mixed feelings on this and know that the majority of people that use this blog would say no, however if you feel it should continue or should not I would invite you to comment below.
If you use Buddha Torrents and have never left a comment now would be the time!
If you dont use Buddha Torrents now would also be your time!
Below is the original letter received.
Hi there
I see that you are responsible for posting many Buddhist books up on the web via buddhisttorrents.blogspot.com and other avenues. I am sure your intention is really good – its so wonderful to be able to make so many precious teachings available to people.
However, what you are going is actually really harmful in a number of ways and I wanted to bring these to your attention for your consideration. I am not trying to engage in a philosophic debate or anything, I just want to paint the whole picture for you.
Authors, publishers, and booksellers who create, produce, and make these books available are not getting rich off of these, but their enumeration is what makes it possible to continue putting these books out there. We are not producing any Tom Clancy or Danielle Steele novels here. If the economics of producing our types of books breaks down, far fewer will be made – that is just a reality, and frankly it is already happening due to the changing economics with bookstores closing and Amazon becoming the gorilla that it is. So making these available to people for free ultimately does a lot of harm. For example, one of our authors donates all her proceeds to her monastic practice center to ensure that it can continue in the future. This is one of many, many examples. Many of our authors barely make enough to do what they do.
It is a difficult time for publishers of all books these days – many will not survive the next few years, and those that will are struggling to find new ways of revenue to enable their employees to do what they love, which is making these books. Having free downloads undermines this.
As for those people who do not have enough money to afford these books, we do make them available for libraries to have. Additionally Shambhala, and I assume Wisdom, Snow Lion and others, donate many books to worthy causes – each year we send them to prisons, military personnel, and other organizations.
So I respectfully request that you please stop your activity in this area, remove links to these files that enable others to take what is not given. I know your heart is in the right place, and you could be doing so much to help people connect with this meaningful activity. Become a reviewer! Blog about these books! We’ll send you reviewer copies for free.
Thanks for your consideration,
For those of us who live in places where the vast majority of the books featured here are not available, you are a life line. For those of who cannot afford to purchase books, you are an amazing Bodhisattva of compassion.
ReplyDeleteFor myself, this site has been an amazing gift. I've had access to material here that I would never have been able to buy. My practice has been helped a great deal by this site. I'm sure many others have been helped as well.
You do not host any of the files shown here so I agree with Didier's view. You are preforming a great service here and I hope that you choose to continue. You are truly needed. =)
Namaste, Gasho, Hapchang. _/|\_
Please don't go!!! Your are my only source for such very important things. =)
ReplyDeletePlease keep the blog going. If you have to just move it to a new hosting site. Shambhala is under the mistaken understanding that those who download would not do so if they did not have the option (which is impossible cause people will always share) and they would buy the book. The simple fact is more people have access to the Dharma because of what Buddha Torrents is doing and that is good. If Shambhala's true goal was to spread the Dharma they would be fine with what you are doing. The truth is they are about $! Dharma is priceless, hence one can't put a price on it.
ReplyDeletePLEASE, PLEASE do NOT close this blog. It has helped so many people who would otherwise not have access.
ReplyDeleteMany are indigent.
If there is anything I can do to help facilitate, please feel free to contact me'
Thank you
nancibaren
This website is outstanding. For them to force you to take this site down is outright outrageous. Just another big brother. If that is the case, everyone can probably chip in for towards a small website and hosting fee on another domain because Big "Brother" Blogger is not respecting or supporting your site anymore.
ReplyDeleteThis site has been very enlightening. If Blogger knew better, most temples provide free books, lectures, and seminars to spread the word. Of course, they accept some donations here and there.
Blogger just wants to shut this down. That's what happens when you have Google running the world. Corporate greed. They have no problems scanning millions of books and putting them online for free. A bunch of hypocrites.
But when a bunch of peaceful Buddhist or Zen practitioners want to spread the message of love and peace, it's time for Google to shut it down.
By the way, some people should wake up to the world reality. We are no all us citizens, so for us is not possible to ask our libraries (if any) to get dharma books. In fact, most of us in latinamerica don`t have public libraries
ReplyDeleteIt's a joke for a book publisher to use what little money the authors make as an excuse because it is them, in fact, that determines the pay of the authors.
ReplyDeleteI have the utmost respect for the major publishers like Snow Lion, Wisdom, and Shambhala Publications but the paid e-book versions of their books are only a dollar or so cheaper than the printed copies-despite the lack of any printing costs-and I doubt it translates into higher pay for the authors.
The simple fact is that they are defending an outdated business model (less aggressively so than the MPAA and RIAA are) and need to innovate faster. It is why so many authors are now self-publishing.
+1 for this place!
ReplyDeleteLike you already said, this is a complex matter. I read the letter from Shambhala Publications and I must say I was pleasantly surprised by their kindness. Usually you get something along the lines of: "Stop, or we will sue your ass and put you in jail."
ReplyDeleteI can understand publishers like Shambhala, and I understand people who are left with very little money at the end of the month that they can spend on books & things they like. If I were you, I'd think this matter over and decide based on what is the Right thing to do.
I am living in rural Thailand and sustain from a moderate salary. Having no access to material via buddhosttorrent means have no material at all. Sharing can't be wrong.
ReplyDeleteAsking for Dana is ok, but asking for profit is not!
Yours in the Dhamma,
Peter
thank you buddhisttorrents for helping make Dharma more widely available and accessible to many more people.
ReplyDeleteSharing is not a crime - can't agree more. Buddha gave his teachings freely to all. Did anyone pay Buddha anything for using his teachings in gainful ways?
I am sure the authors want their works more widely read and shared to benefit more people. Netizens like Buddhistorrents make this possible.
There are just people in the world who can't afford to purchase those books. What's wrong with sharing these books with people who can't afford to pay.
Publishers could perhaps consider make it a part of their mission to 'dana' or share with people who can't afford to buy the books by giving permission to netizens like buddhisttorrents to continue doing what it does to provide a babdly needed service. If this dana is made, the we all 'do not have to take what is not given'.
thank you buddhisttorrents.
If possible then please don't close the site, I try my best to get a book from Local Library rather than try to get it thru internet but the Choices are sooooooo limited or should I say there are hardly any choices, but at the same time don't want you to get into any trouble whatsoever, so after reading thru all the comments make the final decision depending on your situation.
ReplyDeleteYou did a great service to all us fellow dhamma travelers and I will be forver grateful for that, with metta, a Dhamma Seeker.
why they don;t do the same with the megasharing sites?it's just intimidation
ReplyDeleteTricky, diffucult one? A complex matter? Not really, if you trust your gut. There are many sites that make dharma material freely available - they are 'given'. Consent is not given for the material on buddhisttorrents - they are 'not given'. Downloading from the site is 'taking the not given.' No ifs or buts. Any argument in favor of keeping the site open is a rationalisation for breaking the second precept - and running or using the site makes one complicit in encouraging that. I've done it, and every time I do I feel that little twinge of shame - a good indicator that what one is doing isn't 100% wholesome. Anyone in India, Thailand, or wherever, who can download a movie or book via buddhisttorrents, can download from any number of other sites with freely given material. And should. Yes, buddhisttorrents has pointed me to some valuable material. But take it down, please! Sharing is wrong if what you're sharing isn't yours to begin with. If a similar site springs up elsewhere, fair enough - let them deal with the karmic fallout and the contradiction inherent in what they're doing. Shambhala's letter has helped me decide that I won't nick any more dharma material - it's incongruent in every possible way! If any of us had one dharma book and could heed and practice it perfectly, we wouldn't need any others.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes to all,
Daniel
This place should stay active.
ReplyDeleteIt's just an information you can get here. Let the people decide what they wanna do with that - preview, steal, review, check before buying - it's their decision and their karma.
To publishers, editors, authors - for many reasons I couldn't buy your stuff anyway, so you've lost nothing.
Thanks for the blog.
All I can think about is....
ReplyDelete"Don't let it end
I'm begging you, don't let it end this way
Don't let it end
I'm begging you, don't let it end this way" STYX
hmmm.
ReplyDeletei buy a book. i give it it to someone else. and so on. and so on.
the publisher earns from the first. but not from the second and so on. and so on.
the digital age makes the 'and so on' much more 'and so on.'
but that's the truth of the matter.
the whole world of digital protection is a sham; once the book is purchased, the right to the material has passed on. no matter what the publisher may say. (and the bought & paid-for government may enact).
the buddha lived in the pre-digital age and any precepts must be carefully adapted to the current age, and not blindly adhered to as some fundamental word of god.
it is the work of the publisher to manage the initial purchase of the material. if the publisher wishes to induce more initial purchases of their material, then they must also adapt to the current age, and figure out how to make the initial purchases more inviting than the digital copies.
the decision is, of course, yours. and their request was, indeed, respectable. but they are exerting their efforts in the wrong direction. get into that conference room and figure it out on your own! buddha didn't have a laptop and a marketing staff. you do.
Get a hosting on a different country.
ReplyDeleteThat may solve the problem or delay it.
Thank you for sharing.
"To publishers, editors, authors - for many reasons I couldn't buy your stuff anyway, so you've lost nothing".
ReplyDeleteThose of them who earn money by selling teachings in order to donate the money later rest assured that I save them in order to give them back to the people who keep alive the teachings (without any charge from their part, note that please) for all of us throughout the centuries.
I suppose this will make you feel better.
Also know that no master charges money for his teachings.
So you too also instead of complaining asking for copyrights etc,. you should help the masters since u r involved in dharma, asking for donations to be given to you in order to keep the teachings alive and do your wonderful job giving the books for free for those interested.
That kind of transaction involves Love instead of money and make things work according to the teachings makes also the people more lovable between each other where no money exists in the sharing of wisdom.That has an impact to the soul you know....its a completely different thing to receive something with love and not with money, have you ver tried it?
Have you ever thought of that?
I should write more on that but I think thats enough.
Bear in mind that the money is the root of all evil. It doesnt have to exist also in the world of Light, Love and Wisdom.
Buddhism is not about money, Its about liberation from suffering. SO now that we have the possibility of sharing. You want us to stop?
ReplyDeleteBuddha Torrents makes the internet valuable: as a source of knowledge that leads to practice and compassion.
ReplyDeletePlease do not stop.
However, I guarantee that if this sites does stop, another will take its place. Karma
Dharma should be free to all people at all times. People outside the rich white world simply have no access to these teachings except through torrents. The gatekeepers have a point about making their living in a capitalist environment, but they should also examine their hearts for selfishness and greed.
ReplyDeleteI'm from Greece, first comment here, but I've known this blog for over a year and found many wonderful stuff because of it.
ReplyDeleteI was missing it when it ceased for a while, but happy to see it up again.
It would be great if it's possible to stay, but I've never run a blog and I understand that with all this pressure it's not to be taken for granted.
Best of luck and thanks for all the effort so far!
I´m from Argentina. This kind of books and not even in English.
ReplyDeleteApart from that, one Kabat Zinn book, here is almost 100 Us Dollar.
We, argentinians, have an exchange of 4/1...I mean, 1 dollar it equal to 4 argentinians pesos...
can you imagine how bad is our situation? we cant afford books...
One book it´s equal to more than one week of work =(
Actually, i´m a student of psychology. I really can´t afford this books, and this kind of information could not easily be found (and if you find it, probably, will cost very expensive)
What would our Lord Budha say in this kind of situation?
Let put in his pleace and act according to compassion.
Most budhas torrent users, cant afford this books... My opinion is that budha torrent must go on posting as it being doing...
By the way, thanks budha torrent for share, share is always good
That's a tricky one indeed.
ReplyDeleteI agree with a lot of what has been said here about the publishing world. The fact that the nice folks at Shambala, for example, are selling their pdf books and their printed material for nearly the same price is a shame: it did discourage me already, not being able to purchase these books.
Indeed, I agree that downloading their material for free is screwing them over. But on the other hand, considering the economy and their business model, it is very difficult to go about it in a different way. I'm not saying that it gives us the right to screw them at all. I'm saying that they could look at what they're doing wrong, and that asking people to stop sharing these links is pointless and futile indeed.
So maybe, no matter if you delete this blog or not, it would be good to answer them, asking for them to rethink the way they're making their money. They definitely should benefit from publishing their material, but they have to adapt to this new world.
I'm not saying anything new, and some comments here have been expressing the problem and situation a lot better than I did, but I wanted to support that point of view, and thank you for sharing these links no matter what.
I hope it won't be to much of a pain for you to make the decision :)
I hope this blog continues, but... if i were in your situation, I would close it.
ReplyDeleteParadoxical? Totally.
Just like the fact that I like to eat meat, but if I had to kill the animals myself, I would be a vegetarian. Not sure if that makes me a hypocrit or just plain lazy.
from Thailand,
ReplyDeleteBuddha and master in the pass never sold his work.....and he teach to everyone who want to know Buddhadharma.
Buddhadharma is not a personal property, Buddha gave it to old master and they sent it again and again to present time, now why anyone want to sell Buddhadharma?
I am live in the country that I can not find these book in library and it is very expensive tax if I want to buy it from store.
Yes, if I have enough money, I will go to buy it. I think everyone feel like this, it is hard to read ebook on the monitor but now I can do only this.
but...it is your consideration.
I respect all of your decision.
(please forgive me for my poor English.)
this is an excellent blog, Please let them stay, thanks a lot
ReplyDeleteMark wrote: "Clearly Shambala has a different goal, and I think we all know what that is."
ReplyDeleteYes, they are trying to remain a viable business, so they can continue to publish good books, which we all enjoy. That's not a crime. If the freebie dharma books provided at your local temple are so great, why not just read those and stop downloading pirated copies of commercial publications? You know why, because the content and authors of the commercial publishers are far better (for the most part).
In my opinion, you should honor Shambhala's request by not posting links to books edited by them.
ReplyDeleteSeveral good reasons are presented here why you should continue posting links. Also, I don't completely agree with Shambhala's viewpoint on loss of revenue.
But in the end, Shambhala is right that you are contributing in giving what has not been given, what can be considered as stealing or to promote stealing. Since they have wholeheartedly tried to make you aware of this, you should stop it.
Kind regards,
Ano
Many thanks to the people(1+1?) running Buddha torrents! I have gained free access to many precious texts!
ReplyDeleteHowever, I also have serious misgivings!
Practicing ethics the way I have been taught involves: "Not taking, what isnt given!". If publishers and authors have not specifically published free through the internet, it would seem to be a transgression taking such a not-given book?
It would Probably accumulate some negative karma?
Yours in the Dharma./M
Kindly please don't close this blog it would be a great loss for me and all dharma friends the place where I am living dont often get buddhist books and I usually do my best to buy the books but sometimes the books are very expensive if I need learn more about buddha dharma and do reference I need to go to library so it is very essential and important for all the dharma friends please dont close this blog I request publishers to kindly help the poor dharma friends I understand publishers take a lot of effort behind to publish book but they have to keep in mind no right effort and good cause goes waste, regards, Bharath
ReplyDeleteShambala would have us perpetuate the wasteful paper publishing industry for the sake of their profits. These profits go to Tibetan institutions and agenda that are far more political than spiritual.
ReplyDeleteI have always lived in remote places, and my vote goes to the readers in those situations, not to mention those who cannot afford the strength of their literary enthusiasms. These days I buy the books I am really sure I want from Amazon, and I free download those of more uncertain value to me, which invariably leads to more paper
purchases.
I am about to write a book for specialized interests, and I am unable to think of even one good reason it should ever see paper, as profits are of no interest to me. I have concluded that the paper publishing industry is really about SALES and PROMOTION, and they do not give a fig about writing or the common interests of humanity. They care far more about salesmen than authors.
Plz leave Buddha Torrent alive!!! Plz plz!!!
ReplyDeleteCopy and MOVE if you must but do not delete!
ReplyDeleteI have purchased Shambala products thanks to this 'blog'.
I mostly download the more academic books posted here. They are usually written by professors and academics and they usually have a monthly income from their institutions. And they might even get extra bonuses for publishing. Furthermore, these books are usually so expencive that its impossible to buy. I could go to the library but since i like to scrible when i read i would have had to copy the books. That would be a lot of work. And to repeat what others have said: i would not buy the books im downloading if they were not available. I would probably not have come across them.
ReplyDeletebtw: i could recommand pages like: scribd, avaxhome, ebook30, holybooks
The Buddha never charged anyone for his teachings, and i'm sure the book sellers would also love giving their books away for free to the people who can't afford them, such as me.
ReplyDeleteThe Buddha said all things are impermanent. He did not make any exemptions for content publishing models.
ReplyDeleteHi from Italy!:-)
ReplyDeleteThank to Buddha Torrents I have the chance to get in touch and preview books that I would not meet otherwise.
After that, if I like a book generally I buy it.
So, my impression is that blogs like this are not a damage but a "showcase" for buddhist books publishers...
please continue to share the dharma, i think these western buddhist publication companies should make dharma books available to those less fortunate free of charge. this may seem strange to some but i waited 6 months to receive dharma books from taiwan. i got them free of charge and they definitately weren't available in any store here.in any case your disclaimer states that you do not host any of these torrents, you just makes the links and descriptions available ,please continue, your efforts are greatly appreciated.
ReplyDeletethanks from trinidad and tobago!!
In the adverse times we live making accessible books that can raise awareness is an act of merit and it shouldn't be stopped. We cannot put a price tag on everything. I feel disappointed with Shambhala Publications. Please, continue Buddha Torrents.
ReplyDeleteshambala has been a great publisher over the years and i've bought so many of their books -- thank you for making them available to us.
ReplyDeletemany of the books i might download from buddha torrents are copies of the books i've already bought so that the originals are then donated to local libraries.
shambala isn't losing any new sales as a result but does reap the merit and good karma from these donations to the community.
i look at BT as a second hand bookstore for the soul.
thanks - please keep BT running
I never posted a comment here but I wanted to say this:
ReplyDeleteMost books that I read fully or about half way I end up buying because i love it and want to have a hard copy. Please leave this open, to some, its the only way they can get this type of material. Appreciate it
i also want to add that if you close your site down, numerous other ones will appear and someone will keep it going through torrents/usenets/irc so please keep this site open!
ReplyDeleteit's amazing how intelligent and respectful this whole discusison has been. It's quite rare on the internet to see that.
ReplyDeleteThs site is really one of a kind. If you do decide to move it, please let us know where so we can follow you.
And if I may play devil's advocate: A lot of people refer to the precept "do not take what is not given". Can someone explain what I am taking when I make a digital copy? I am not depriving anything from anyone. (plenty of testimony above showing that a download does NOT equal a lost sale) I am not saying there are no karmic consequences to downloading. There are karmic consequences to all actions. But I don't believe that precept applies to filesharing. Do not confuse copyright and precepts.
I also wonder if Shambhala Pubs is monitoring this thread. It would be great if they would respond to some of the comments made. For some reason though, I doubt they will, and I find that unfortunate.
I am from Australia. 98% of 'illegal donwloads' I have collected from this site and others are e-copies of books that I already own because I bought them. If I buy books at Shambala and asked them to give me a complimentary ecopy, it's easy to anticipate the reply.
ReplyDeleteAs Patrul Rinpoche says “The Dharma is nobody’s property. It belongs to whoever is most interested.” ( Words of My Perfect Teacher)
So from the Dharma side of things no one can claim anything. In fact I would see sites like this especially when used by Argentinian, Mexican, Hungarian, Greek and other friends in remote places or in poor circumstances as part of the ongoing transmission that we are all responsible for.
It is a fact that translators have to live. Those of us who have work and can make sacrifices to our own comfort can buy the books from the publishers, can sponsor the 84,000 project and the Khyentse Foundation.
The highest generosity is giving the dharma. Thank you for the courage of maintaining this site. Resisting the moralistic blackmail from left wing liberals is part of that...
First of all, it seems to exist only one complaint coming from Shambala... therefore, avoid the posts related only to Shambala.
ReplyDeleteSecond, we people who live at the periphery of the world (i.e. I live in Argentina), the chance to get and read these books or watch these movies is highly valuable.
This same old argument didn't work with the music download and now is being applied to books, without real foundation, trying to make us feel guilty for the bankrupcy and poverty of the authors and editorials. Knowledge must be asequible to all besides Amazon's customers.
I have been conscious of having reservations about my bitorrent activities for a long time - and would certainly feel regret if Shambhala or other book companies to close.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I believe that the teachings (in whatever medium) should not be exclusive to only those with money to spend. In addition, that Shambhala Publications was set up by students of Chögram Trungpa who (if my memory serves me right) claims that many students consume dharma products to boost their sense of self rather than developing themselves inside. (see Spiritual Materialism on Wikipedia)
I agree that using, and thus supporting local libraries is one of the best steps forward and should be never be overlooked.
However, as well as looking deeply at our actions, I feel that now is the time for dharma and other businesses to join with others who are constructing an alternative system to using money so that people can 'pay' for goods in another way - a form of barter system. At first it would undoubtedly co-exist alongside the present financial system but may in time replace it. This would be revolutionary, visionary and no doubt timely.
As one who reads and writes, uploads and downloads torrents, I could probably argue either side of this issue.
ReplyDeleteAs one who just recently found that this blog is operating again, I know how much I would miss it if it closed.
I do believe that you should drop the Shambhala books, since there has been a specific request to do so.
I know Blogger has closed other blogs like yours which provided links to download material. So, it might be better for you to find another venue.
Anyway, thanks for your efforts so far.
Despite what is being said, not many can continue to spend hundreds of dollars on this sort of material. For those us who can not, this is a helpful website.
ReplyDelete2500 years ago, Buddha appeared in this world to give teachings with one and one purpose only: to teach us the way to liberate ourselves. Buddha has never asked for anything in return. Therefore it is our responsibility to keep the teachings available freely to others.
ReplyDeleteIf you are a writer to write about Buddhism and want to make money, we suggest you switch career. Dharma can't be for sale.
I do have issues with downloading books on the whole, but with downloading Buddhist books, I do feel that the ethical issue is somewhat greyer, specifically, because of the philosophy that Buddhism espouses.
ReplyDeleteIf someone truly believes in the Mahayana ideal, then if they are an author of a book, they should want that book to reach as many people as possible so that as many people as possible can become enlightened.
Charging money for the book will put people off buying the book and so some person, who the book could be ideal for, would not read the book and so not become enlightened.
The person who contacted buddhatorrents said that one author used the profits to maintain her monastic practice. Very laudable but this is quite egotistical as maintaining her probably small monastic practice should not take first place over spreading the Dharma to as many people as humanly possible.
Her book might be amazing, and would bring many people to Buddhism. But if people see it on amazon for, let's say, £10, along with the thousands and thousands of other Buddhist books out there, fewer people are going to read her brilliant book. And many potential Buddhists will be lost.
I'm afraid Buddhists can't have their cake and eat it too. Either they want to be universally compassionate and spread the Dharma to all living beings or they want to make a living off Buddhism.
I do look at people like Stephen Batchelor and Noah Levine and wonder if these sorts of people, whilst writing excellent books that do indeed promote Buddhism very well, are actually living an authentic Buddhist lifestyle.
I watched the Noah Levine documentary and saw him driving around on his new Harley Davidson. Buddhism sells then!
And whilst reading Stephen Batchelor's autobiography, I couldn't quite work out how he managed to pay his bills or put food on his table. He didn't really seem to have any "job".
He earns his living writing very good Buddhist books. But should he "earn" his living in this way? I do feel that making money from promoting a philosophy that is so anti-materialistic is somewhat ironic.
These people seem to be "professional Buddhists", almost as though writing about Buddhism is a career choice.
I've researched Buddhism heavily over the last year and whilst I admire the philosphy greatly, I don't like the often hypocritical materialism that I see on occassion. And this topic is a perfect example of this.
Bottom line. All Buddhist authors should publish their works for free. If they don't, and make out some story that they can't survive without royalties, then they are hypocrites. There is nothing to stop them getting a job in a factory and writing in their spare times. (As I have, someone who indeed works 8 hours a day in a factory but has still managed to have two books published!)
Apologies is this all seems somewhat cynical. I admire Buddhism greatly through my research and my research has been aided by buddhatorrents.
If Buddhists truly want to get the Dharma out there, then they will support things like buddhatorrents or some initiative like a big, free, Buddhist online printing press cum website where top Buddhist authors publish their works to as wide an audience as possible.
This is what Buddhism should be all about.
I think you should not close your blog. I won't explain why because most of comments that people have left already give (almost) all tge good reason to keep your blog alive.
ReplyDeleteSo it's just one more comment saying you're doing a good work sharing with us all those links. Really! Thank you so much.
Please Don't Delete!! I love this site!!
ReplyDeleteI love this blog. Don't delete it, please!
ReplyDeleteI also live in Mexico, a country in great turmoil. I sometimes buy Dharma books here and through Amazon, but they are extremely costly and I am not wealthy. I have downloaded books from Buddha Torrents, and once in a while check in to see the new uploads. I don't print and sell these books, sometimes -when I think a specific title may do some good to someone- I send them via e-mail. I don't see a crime in this. It's like back in the 70's, when you tape-recorded a record and gave it to your girlfriend. (I don't consider that a crime either). I am, by the way, in the publishing business. Please, keep on...
ReplyDeleteGassho!
really sad to hear that, but it'll be great if keep posting and staying alive blog
ReplyDeletePlease keep the site going! Your work is helping a lot of people.
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting discussion. The bottom line for me is that authors and publishers have a point (I spoke about this with one of my author friends and he thought it was a shame so many people have rationalizations to basically steal, though my view is a bit more flexible, see below). To his point, they put all this work into these, need to make a living, etc. and we come along and grab them because we can. It is fundamentally not different that taking a book from a store without paying for it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the availability issue, most of these books are ebooks now which can be bought from anywhere. The only grey area is for people who truly cannot afford them (though apparently have computers, etc. etc.). I feel for them and not sure what to say, but wonder how really valid this is.
If people want Buddhist books to be free, please write one and make it available. Also there are many communities that sponsor publications and there is some great free (and downloadable) material out there.
Rather than take the site down, I think it is great to post books or discussions and talk about them. Then people can learn more. My 2 cents.
My friend,
ReplyDeleteThe most important thing is the INTENTION. I heard this words from a great tibetan teacher, so do what you think is good for others. Don't think too much about right and wrong, just do it.
how can sharing be wrong?
ReplyDeletewe are not even supposed to profit financially from sacred teachings in the first place
we are moving to a more open hearted and generous world beyond money, based on sharing; it is happening now. i understand shambalas point of view, they are accting to protect their interest. it is for them to leave how to adapt to a changing market place rather than being reactionary and trying to grasp onto something they have already lost. times are changing fast, change is accelerating. your work supports and uplifts many and i feel sure that many readers/listeners do go on to buy original material.
ReplyDeletein the spirit of abundance i praise you, offer gratitude for all the teachings and invoke the vision of prosperity of all kinds to flow freely to us all
Namaste
It's a very useful blog. Don't delete it, please!
ReplyDeleteShambala Publications! Indeed! Whats their motive for intruding into this blog? MONEY! To stay in business! They have outlived their usefulness years ago. This blog is a REAL service for free, a concept that has been totally lost at Shambala.
ReplyDeleteGo away and leave this blog alone, and hopefully, in the near future, your whole money making "Buddhist" yuppie publication will turn into dust.
stay.
ReplyDeletewith or without you the trend is the same.
as an alternative ask them to post some advertising space on your blog for those who afford to buy them and want to support this way.
however I would remind that editing house that all great spiritual masters offered those teachings for FREE and with full detachment regarding material values like money.
the world is changing so they have adapt also to spread these valuable gems.
if there will be no more means to stay alive as a non or small profit business , well then it's the planet's bad karma ...
let the people gain more merit and start again :D
a garland of life giving wisdom, and though things of this world are impermanent...wisdom is not
ReplyDeleteplease continue to bring together these rare flowers...your garland of wisdom means a lot to me
love
mani
india
well all good things come to an end I guess too bad that this awesome blog got on the hot list I want to thnk you for all the great stuff
ReplyDeleteone thing the so called"publishers" do not get is no on here will buy there stuff anyway
Maybe time to move the whole rig to a new address!!! some music bloggers keep moving their blogs around to avoid the NetGb LOL
thnks again
shambala's motive is unclear to me, shouldn't the dharma be freely offered to anyone?!?!
ReplyDeleteisn't that (!) actually a precept just as not taking what is freely given??
(maybe i am confused i don't know),
what i do suggest is that you can open a dharma donation box (paypal) and if people here do appreciate the books they can give dana and you can donate it as you wish,
i am not saying this is the solution, only a possibility.
another thing is, if you have a teacher that you trust you can ask for his advice, and talk to shambala also to try and understand each other better.
Dear Buddha Torrents,
ReplyDeletefirst i would like to thank you for your past efforts, it has been a great personal help to me to be able to source some of these precious texts this way. i simply would not have had access to these teachings and contents without your efforts, since i am not in a position to buy many of those books at this time in my life (i have bought them in the past, and will buy them again in the future however).
Additionally, it is a precious resource to be able to have a number of these texts in pdf format and be able to have them in a pc format that is portable, searchable, and allows them to be stored in a compact format (i own a number of the books i have downloaded, and it would not be practical for me to scan them all myself)
i also note that the main point in the letter of complaint you posted is a commercial one ( they state their loss of revenue) and i simply dont feel that is a valid point. most people that download these texts do so strictly for personal use, and being buddhist students the are well aware of the ethics and morals involved. downloading them rather then buying them is not as easy of a choice it might seem, since most of us that download them simply cant afford to buy them at this point in our lives, and we wouldnt be able to read them and learn from them any other way if we couldnt source them this way.
there are many great evils in the world right now, for one the way the global financial corporations have plundered the coffers of "mr citizen" in the western world, and bankrupted our countries for decades to come. yet NONE of these blood suckers are in jail, quite the opposite, by all indications it has been a successful and productive enterprise for them to do so and they are laughing all the way to their private gated mansions. worse, their acts of plunder have been undertaken with the collusion of those that should be representing our collective interests (our elected politicians), and there is no sigh this collusion of self interest between big business and our politicians is about to change either, even if the world right now is yet again on the brink of another financial collapse.
so if anybody wants to complain about a few dharma texts being shared, lets keep this in proportion. want to change the world ? sure, just make sure to pick the right PROPORTIONATE target to aim at, and pick some of the root causes that actually make a difference for us collectively (rather then one interst group just pushing its own little agenda). sharing a few precious dharma books with people who cant afford them is just not an issue, maybe start by introducing some campaign finance reform, impose ethical behaviour guidelines on our politicians, and go to recover the money they just plundered from us and jail a few of the crooks who destroyed our western civilization. we the people will then have work, have productive jobs, and can buy all the books we need and want. simple really !
Please don't shut Buddha Torrents down!!!
ReplyDeleteWeird, they want to shut you down when you're only pointing to the torrents and you're not hosting anything. You're simply serving as a liaison.
For publishers it may seem like a loss but they are not capable of truly measuring the effects to others, their statements are empty and are only based on their perceptions.
Besides, I believe that when a person is touched/inspired/moved by the Dharma and somehow gains some insight and realization because of it, he or she will do more good deeds even without the law. Say for example, if I get to download a book/dharma talk and this has inspired me or touched me in any way, I may have the urge to donate. The ripple effect is immeasurable.
I don't think I've articulated my point well. haha
Anyway, I agree with Emperor Coconut, it may be a generation thing.
So please don't shut the site down! :)
Gonna have to respectfully disagree with most of the posters here. We live in the real world, where publishers, especially small publishers, like Shambhala require actual capital to survive. It's nice to talk about the Dharma and how it should be shared freely with all, alas, be realistic, Shambhala has real financial concerns it has to deal with in order to remain in business and to continue providing access to the Dharma. Part of being a grown-up is being grounded, and recognizing things as they are. Sure, you can try to change them, but going against the grain like you're doing is only hurting small publishers, and ultimately making the Dharma less available.
ReplyDeleteSeriously consider doing what they ask of you.
Please don´t destroy this place. It´s not so easy to find such an unique place to find something about buddhism.
ReplyDeletethx
I believe the publishers are hardly losing any money because of file sharing.
ReplyDeleteI have bought many books and audio recordings, but I simply cannot afford to buy everything, since I am on a limited income. If I couldn't get free access, I wouldn't get access at all. If I can afford it, I will buy it, but if I can't, I won't.
I probably wouldn't have heard of many spiritual teachers that I bought books of later on, if it wasn't for sites like this one.
Dear people at Shambala (and similar places): try seeing sites like these as a form of promoting your products. It's not free, just like purchasing an ad in the paper, but in the end you profit from it.
Stay with us please!!!!
ReplyDeleteDon't let them get to you. Keep on providing teaching for those who may not have access to ANY of the facilities mention in the letter. What you are doing is reaching a far greater number than the donations that Shambhala is making. Further, they may be small but the are not exactly hurting they are neting between 5 and 10 million a year. This is only the publishing company as we all know Shambhala is a good sized outfit. Needless to say, they are doing a lot of great work and so are you. At the end of the day, I don't recall reading price list in any of the sutras. The Buddha taught for free. You are helping to feed the spirit of the Maha Sangha and helping those who would not otherwise have any access to the text mentioned on the site.
ReplyDeletePlease keep up the good works!
Many Thanks!!!!!
It is really imposible to me to buy these books. I live in Ecuador, here the books are expensive, and these good materials are really rare. And the books are not in Spanish, if you want one of these books, you must import. Not a good situation, please continue these blog... :)
ReplyDeleteShambhala Publications, please dont worry. Even if i use this blog, i always buy the best books in paper form. ;-)
ReplyDeletewhy is it that a library could loan out the same books (paid for only once) countless times unrestricted while the generosity of some in sharing the files (from first paid copy) and those accpeting the generosity be considered 'ethically wrong' or worse 'a crime'?
ReplyDeleteif Shambala (and others like it) is really doing Buddha's works in Buddha's spirit, then do what is right by the Buddha with wisdom and compassion - share what they have with those who don't have the cold hard cash to pay for it as spiritual food.
if shambala and others like is are purely business concerns, then .....
thank you buddha torrents for providing a badly needed service in Buddha's spirit.
Hi
ReplyDeleteI've visited your site near everyday since finding in on the web It would be are great shame to lose your blog.... Please don't go the people that are tying to close you down are the same people that don't practices what they preach with wrong intention behind their cause.
Why "us" against "them"?
ReplyDeleteWhat if we work together?
Maybe we can support, volunteer and donate Dharma publishers.
How much do they need to make this teachings available to everyone?
Doug, please, why don,t you try to be more generous and less bureaucratic. That would be very nice from you to others.
ReplyDeleteBecause others are more important than any business.
I've now backed up this site and every post on it and am ready to shift it to an off-shore server in the event either the owner shuts it down or is forced to shut it down.
ReplyDeleteThis resource will live on regardless of what the owner or anyone else does.
Sounds good, I'm looking at VPS providers in Holland ATM, if in a week you decide to drop it I'll be redeploying.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous July 6, 2011 12:07 & Leaf Dharma -
ReplyDeleteGreat Idea! If its redeployed elsewhere will someone keep adding?
This blog has been a source of knowledge and information for me and, I am sure, many other people from all over the world. There are several blogs on the Internet which features mindless violence etc which have been running for years, yet nothing has been done about them, but there have been efforts to close this blog which educates us about Buddhism?? How ridiculous is that! Please let this blog continue.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep adding content and maybe open it up to some contributors to keep it updated.
ReplyDeleteHi, I am from Peru and I'm sure, It's Impossible to find these kind of books over here, and it's Super Expensive to buy then online!!
ReplyDeleteInfomation must be for everyone, anywhere in the globe, so well I think even if you close this web,
This page is not the first or going to be the last that publishes this books, just as simple as saying "just live with it", internet is for everyone!
Thanks!!!
Hey Leaf,
ReplyDeleteThis is silly, of course, but I'm sure you know that. Sounds like you might be getting tired of it all, which is understandable.
"So making these available to people for free ultimately does a lot of harm." How can giving dhamma away for free do harm? What a silly argument. Reminds me of when I started teaching meditation and my former teacher got upset and started telling people I was going to destroy him because he relied on income from his meditation students from the same centre. When I told this to our headmaster, he snorted and said, "how can you destroy someone by teaching meditation?"
I give away my book and videos away for free; not even any ads on my YouTube page, even though I'm a partner. To do this, I've had to make a lot of sacrifices. I wear rags, eat leftovers, live in caves and shacks and under park benches, etc. I have no money, go hungry sometimes, sick and have no medicine sometimes, etc. But I'm happy, and I'm not going to let someone tell me that I shouldn't share dhamma because the author "donates all her proceeds to her monastic practice center to ensure that it can continue in the future." What a bunch of rubbish. If you need money to write a dhamma book, you shouldn't write a dhamma book.
Which I guess leads me to the conclusion that your site is pretty useless, from my hpov ;) I don't come here for dhamma, there's too much free stuff that makes me feel much better anyway. Even the visuddhimagga is available for free distribution (quasi-illegally). Honestly, I don't know how Bhikkhu Bodhi can sell his translations.
Just thought I would make come on to some noise :) Good luck with the tea shop.
Those of us who are a little more worldly still gotta eat bro. Life of a monk isn't for everyone.
ReplyDeletePlease stay with us. =) _/|\_
ReplyDeleteIt's probably the nicest Cease & Desist letter in history, so thanks to Shambhala Publications for being so gentle.
ReplyDeleteI believe that what this site does is as important as the authors who interpret the Buddha's words, and indeed the publishers who publish them, especially Shambhala. However, there is a clear case here for people needing to get through difficulty, and sometimes desperation, by having access to these important works. Personally, I have been to libraries many, many times and borrowed audiobooks by these same publishers and authors, as well as books. At no time was my being lent such material an issue.
Many who come to this excellent blog do not have the luxury of a local, well-stocked, open-minded library, and so the existence of this medium in sharing what other members have previously purchased and then posted, should not be an issue.
This is especially the case when one considers the type of material being presented by the authors and publishers.
In fact, there have been at least a dozen times that I have discovered material here, and then gone on to purchase a copy.
I think that it would be a crime to stop this blog, and delete all of the excellent material donated, and further, it would be a crime for Shambhala or their authors to pursue this further.
Surely, it would make more sense for publishers to assist in legitimizing the site in some way, as opposed to bringing lawyers in to the equation? Those same lawyers often having little understanding for anything other than commercial interests.
What is it about the Western business model that, however nice about it, goes after easiest targets for their loss of market share? Why is it that the Japanese model exists by turning a blind-eye to copyright and still turns a healthy profit?
There exists a great need for the material on this site to be disseminated to those who need it most, without charge. This type of awareness is actually a necessary mechanism for publishers to survive.
I hope the blog resists all attempts to close out the service.
The above post somehow implies that copyright law is equivalent to universal law. This is not so.
ReplyDeleteAnd if he takes it offline, it won't matter, it will be mirrored, the content will never disappear.
No, please don't do it because it is a Great Source for Buddhism and Spirituality so please keep it alive...
ReplyDeleteI will try to tell others about so you get more visitors and can go further with this great piece which is your BLOG!
Please don't.
ReplyDeleteNot all books are available especially on the Philippines.
And they are not affordable either.
I think it is apparent that those who are interested in this kind of material will, obviously, pay for it if they are able. Shutting down Buddha Torrents will only really affect those who cannot afford to purchase these materials, such as those on disability, etc.
ReplyDeletePlease keep this blog going, but if you decide not to continue then at least leave up the info for as long as possible.
There is no such thing as "I".
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as "mine".
There is no such thing as "copyright".
Peace!
If you go to a library you will see that their generosity is lip-service, hardly a few books. And if you go to prison, never will you find a book on the dharma, but plenty of Christian books. Christians actually are generous, and actually really want to spread Christianity and share Jesus with you. Publishers of Buddhist books are business as usual and care only about profits.
ReplyDeleteI had videos taken off of youtube that I had paid for. My motivation was generosity, but the person who pointed the camera flagged my videos as copyright infringemnent, not the teacher who gave the teachings I posted.. They also were not open to discussion or working in cooperation together. Their website hasn't published anything new since the 1980s and they ask for donations so they can publish more. Yet I offer to advertise for them and help them and they flag my videos. This shows that there is a culture of entitled affluent baby-boomer pseudo-buddhists who don't really want to spread the dharma if it doesn't give them any glory.
i wont pay for a dharma which preaches generosity
ReplyDeleteMGM Resorts Casino to close for up to four weeks due to Covid
ReplyDeleteMGM Resorts Casino announced 아산 출장마사지 that it 시흥 출장마사지 will 경상북도 출장마사지 be closing at noon on 오산 출장마사지 Monday following an emergency closure. 남원 출장마사지 MGM Resorts casino